If someone plays Ruination and I have Ferrous Forerunner, do the Mech tokens still die?

Question

Accepted Answer

Yes — assuming Ruination is a spell or effect that Kills or deals lethal damage to Ferrous Forerunner while it is resolving, the two 3-|M| Mech tokens from Ferrous Forerunner’s Deathknell will be created after that kill and will not be retroactively killed by the same resolution. The Deathknell trigger is put on the chain before the Forerunner is moved to the Trash, and that trigger is finalized/resolved before the Cleanup that could kill things from the earlier resolution [428.1.a.1.b] [808.1.d.2] [337.1.b] [321].

If Ruination kills Ferrous Forerunner as part of its resolution (i.e., a Kill Instruction or effect that causes it to be put into the Trash), Ferrous Forerunner’s Deathknell is added to the chain before it is moved to the Trash and will be finalized/resolved before the post-resolution Cleanup. The Deathknell will play the two 3-|M| Mech tokens to your base after the spell finishes resolving, so those tokens will not be hit by the damage/kill that already resolved with Ruination. They can still die later due to subsequent effects or a later Cleanup, but not retroactively by the already-resolved Ruination [428.1.a.1.b] [808.1.d.2] [337.1.b] [321] [340.1].

The spell Ruination resolves as the newest Chain item and executes its game effects in their entirety [340.1]. If part of that resolution causes Ferrous Forerunner to be Killed via a Kill Instruction (an Active Kill), its Deathknell trigger is added to the chain as a Pending Item before the Forerunner is moved to the Trash [428.1.a.1.b] [808.1.d.2]. With the Deathknell now pending on the chain, finalize Pending Items in the order they were appended to the chain (Finalizing happens before Cleanups and while the chain is still being processed) [337.1.b]. Because Chain Items are resolving/finalizing, a Cleanup cannot occur until those Chain Items finish [321]. That means the Deathknell trigger will resolve (playing the two 3-|M| Mech tokens to your base) before any post-resolution Cleanup that might otherwise kill things from the earlier resolution runs [321] [340.1]. After the chain is empty, the outstanding Cleanup will occur. The tokens were created after Ruination finished resolving, so they were not present to be affected by the earlier damage/kill from Ruination; therefore they do not die from that same resolution. They remain on the board unless a later effect or Cleanup kills them.

If Ruination’s text is not a single Kill Instruction but instead has multiple distinct steps that include further Kill instructions after the Deathknell would resolve (for example, a spell that resolves, then creates events after the chain finishes), the second kill step could affect tokens. Exact card wording would be required to judge that. If the Kill that would cause Ferrous Forerunner’s Deathknell is replaced (for example, replaced with a Recall), then the Deathknell will not trigger at all [808.1.d.1]. If some replacement or continuous effect retroactively changes the outcome (for example, a replacement that says “if a unit would be killed by this spell, also kill units that enter this turn”), that would need to be evaluated from that effect’s exact text; the general rules above assume no such replacement scoped to entering units. If Ferrous Forerunner dies due to passive lethal damage handled during a Cleanup (rather than an Active Kill Instruction), Deathknell triggers are added during the Cleanup (3a) and still cannot resolve until the Cleanup completes; after Cleanup the Deathknell resolves and plays tokens, which also will not be retroactively affected by that Cleanup [323.4] [320].

Relevant rules: When a Kill Instruction would put a unit with Deathknell into the Trash, that unit’s Deathknell is added to the chain as a Pending Item before the card is moved to the Trash [428.1.a.1.b] and the rules explicitly restate that Deathknell triggers are added before the card is moved to the Trash due to a Kill Instruction or a Cleanup [808.1.d.2]. Pending Items on the chain are finalized and resolved before Cleanups occur; Finalize processes items in the order appended to the chain [337.1.b], and while Chain Items are resolving a Cleanup cannot occur [321]. Putting that together: if Ruination kills Ferrous Forerunner while resolving, the Forerunner’s Deathknell will be put on the chain before it actually moves to the Trash. That Deathknell will be finalized and will resolve (playing the two 3-|M| Mech tokens to your base) while the chain is still being processed. Only after the chain is empty will the outstanding Cleanup run [340.1] [319.5]. Because the tokens are created after the spell finished resolving and before the Cleanup, the damage or kill that already resolved with Ruination cannot retroactively affect those tokens. The only ways the tokens would die from that same event are if the card text of Ruination specifically re-engages the board after Deathknell resolves or has language that explicitly targets things that will enter from that Deathknell — in which case the exact wording of Ruination matters. Also note the other scenario where the Forerunner’s death is handled as a passive cleanup kill (lethal damage handled during the Cleanup): the rules there add Deathknell triggers during the Cleanup [323.4], but those triggers also cannot resolve while the Cleanup is ongoing [320], and they will resolve afterward, producing tokens that are likewise not retroactively killed by that Cleanup. In short: under normal circumstances, the Mech tokens created by Ferrous Forerunner’s Deathknell will survive the resolving Ruination that killed the Forerunner; they are created after that resolution and before the post-resolution Cleanup.